Friday, August 8, 2008

tangible kingdom. week three.

there is very good discussion going on. this past week was the week that i wanted to push some conversation going but some other things got in the way. Had no power at my house for a few days and the church got flooded.
Continue on with the next 3 chapters and hopefully I'll be able to throw in some questions here and there. These next chapters were very intriguing and helped see our culture in a different light!


ben said...

Chapter 7

PG 51 -"First we need not to be afraif of the world becoming less CHRISTONIZED and of being moved to the margins again."

I want to be called a Christian. I want to be known as a follower of the way. Sadly, I think the term "Christian" has become this corporate, republican economy... (if that makes sense)

I think "Christians" at leas the ones in Scripture really cared about the marginalized... which is why i'm glad the author wrote about Peter. I think Christians in American have not spent much time thinking about how to get messy...

I loved this section. i love how Jesus assumes that His followers live in community especially when it comes to confrontation (matthew 18)...

Here's my question about this section....

Is the author stating that we should not call out sin from the pulpit?

*I totally agree and get the fact that the stronger relationship you have with someone the more likely they are willing to listen to you...


What am I supposed to do with the Son of God ... you know... Jesus, commanding that we REPENT... it's one of the first things HE says about His kingdom. the author would do the preacher well to challenge people to have conversations with people instead of believing in the idea of "witnessing" to be bring your friend to church...

Chapter 8
Can somebody help me with the chart?

I think "Christians" need to remember that Jesus was a Jew- not a Christian. It has been INCREDIBLY HELPFUL for me in studying the TORAH as well as Jewish practices and traditions...

I agree with the writer... Western Christianity is to individualistic...

Honestly, I want to be apart of a church that follows the Jewish Calendar (at least for a year). I want to experience Yom Kippur (minus the slaughter) and feel the weight of my sins and my communities sins...and then realizing that we no longer need to offer sacrifice because grace has been given... or even having a sedar meal during the passover...

I think Jews have this deep connection to living. I think it might helps us understand the words of Jesus....


I've been thinking about this question a lot...


if a "seeker/pagan/non-christian/democrat can go to a service, join a small group, feel as though they belong to that small group...then what's the point of membership? Is this a feeling? Do you people have to do stuff?


Chapter 9
I've felt jipped until i was taught that when you divorce the Gospel from living in community then it ceases to be the Gospel.

Who thought?! There's more to following Jesus than having a quiet time... I have people that I'm responsible for and they are responsible to me!

this can get messy....


Amanda said...

Chapter 7: the 1700 year wedgie

(great chapter title!)

"Will being marginalized help us change our posture and allow us to put distance between authentic faith and what people think about what it means to be Christian?" (p. 51)

Something I've had a lot of time to think about is how the faith is lived out in other countries where persecution is serious threat. While people in America have the luxary of freedom of religion, that freedom, that... being in the center, has moved many to complacency and distorted the gospel message. How many American Christians would leave the faith if we suffered the same persecutions China does?
To answer the authors question, I think moving out of the center of culture and into the margins will absolutely help us to change our posture. I think it will bring us to a point where we can't afford to be complacent if we're serious about our Faith. Those who are not serious will walk away while those who are serious will find truth.
I think the most intimidating value for me to participate in is the value of confrontation.
I understand it's value, but it's not easy.
"If Christians simply focused on doing the most basic aspects of Christianity, like 'loving' each other, it would say more to the watching world than all the systematic theology we could throw at them." (p. 55)

I don't know about anyone else, but this thought gives me a sense of relief because that's all I want to do. I didn't choose to study Christian Ministry or Youth Ministry because I want to wow people with some incredible program that I figured out how to throw together. I chose ministry because I am passionate about social justice and I want to step into the margins and love people.

Chapter 8- Paradigm

I guess I really don't have anything to say in regards to this chapter except that it was really long.

What's your question with the chart, Ben? I think it's pretty straightforward, but maybe you're seeing/considering something I haven't?

Chapter 9- Jipped

I can't recall ever having felt jipped about the gospel... maybe it's just the word itself, I'm not feeling particularly fond of it right now.
Perhaps that's because being jipped implies intentionality and I have a hard time believing that people would intentionally screw me over in regards to the gospel.

Have I been taught things that were wrong? With out a doubt, yes. But I think that's was just because the people teaching were ignorant, and probably passing on the same thing they learned.

I don't know.

Right now I'm finding myself wondering how the Gospel of the Kingdom became so diminished. Did it start with Constantine? Does it really even matter; what are we going to do about it?

yesh said...

man o man. these chapters are full of info. it's like it'd be better if we discussed like a chapter a week but the book is just too good just to read one.
I know of some people who'd rather be called a Jesus follower or Christ follower than a Christian because of the worlds view on Christians. Would it matter at all if no matter who you are, you followed Christ with the same passion and love? "They'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love."
I had a good conversation with my dad about the 10 commandments being removed from pubic and city places. It upset him a great deal. His view is that America is a Christian nation and it's being torn down from the structure. The only thing that I know about my dad is that he decided to leave the church when they looked down on him for making mistakes. I'm not sure of the whole deal but I do know he believes in God and Christ but does that make him a Christian? He believes but does not follow. (side-note: is this where pew sitters came from?) And for someone who "believes" and call themselves Christians how can we as leaders and teachers help them see the kingdom?
When those mass amounts of people who heard Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc.... speak and they believed how did they continue to "follow" Christ?
i could keep on going but i'm already behind on last weeks reading.
Thanks for your thoughts.